or click here__________
Karen's notes: This is from the nest-egg. For those who don't know, a duvet is a down comforter. I know that many Americans are confused and think that a duvet is the cover that a comforter can be put into (I thought that myself), but that is actually called a duvet cover.
Adam often accuses me of stealing the duvet in the night. But I want to state that, at the time Adam said this, I looked over and he had plenty of duvet all crumpled up next to him.
Confession/Topic for debate: Now, listen, I need to be honest. Adam actually did say something last night. This is the first time ever that I have ever censored a quote. He insulted someone's singing by comparing it to a cat being sexually assaulted (in harsher language). Adam thought I was being overly sensitive on behalf of our readers, but I just couldn't put something out there making light of rape. It's not from a fear of offending anyone (I mean, seriously, look at all the shit I DO post), it was a concern for actually upsetting some people, particularly those for whom this is a very personal topic. I felt it would be irresponsible. What do you guys think? Am I being silly? Would anyone have been disturbed?
___________
Added hours later: Wow, this has triggered a fascinating discussion in the comments.
Having read the comments, I'm definitely glad that I made the decision I did. I do see a difference between offending someone's sensibilities (as many of STM quotes might) and posting something that could hurt people.
A couple of commentors couldn't understand why, if I was choosing not to post it, I mentioned it— and the topic— at all. I think the sheer number of comments today answers that question: I think of the blog as a community, and I wanted to know what you guys thought about my dilemma. Thanks, everyone, for contributing. I've really enjoyed following the debate.
You don't need to protect anyone. But if you are feeling silly, just give a caution for all the other silly people that they might get offended by the rambling of a sleep talker.
ReplyDeleteNever hold back.
i agree with Anon up there. After all, it is only sleeptalking nonsense!
ReplyDeleteI dont think there any reason not to post it!!
ReplyDeleteNo one visiting the blog could be under the impression that what STM said was meant to offend or upset - it is, after all, his subconscious - so no-one has any room for complaint.
ReplyDeleteAt very least, you could put it up within some kind of 'spoiler' tag with a warning.
Agree with the people above. You can put a warning up front, but people can always choose not to read it. It's not like one of you two deliberately wants to upset people, it's just 'what you do' with this website. People will have to deal with everything :)
ReplyDeleteOnly things I would not post is when it gets to personal for you two.
And I think cat rape is less likely to offend, not that I'd condone it, just that the feline population make up a very small part of your target demographic.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't offend me. However I think not wanting to joke about rape is entirely understandable and reasonable so if it makes you uncomfortable don't do it.
ReplyDeleteI personally know a woman who was the victim of a multiple-male, drugged rape. She's never completely gotten over it, and the slightest thing (it seems) can set her off.
ReplyDeleteI'm also in counselling psychology grad student limbo (long story) and am in the process of studying such things.
If you ask me (and you did), rape and similar violence should *never* be the topic of a joke, or spoken of lightly. Not because I'm concerned about someone's sensibilities being offended, but because I'm concerned about the possibility of triggering a post-traumatic stress response in a victim.
I think you made the right decision in withholding it.
I agree with ButMadNNW.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Alex. :-)
ReplyDeleteI also agree with ButMadNNW, It wouldnt offend me personally but I think its very sensible and understanding of you not to post it, HOWEVER I would love to know who he was referring to!
ReplyDeletehmmm, yes rape is a touchy subject, but can one actually have consensual sex with a cat? oh and no one took too much offence at the suggestions of killing vegetarians?
ReplyDeleteI agree with both sides...on one hand, no problem for those who are fortunate NOT to have experienced rape...on the other hand I can see where it might offend someone. Like if there was a STM moment about losing a child/miscarriage/stillbirth...a lot wouldn't be bothered by it, but I and a lot of others (unfortunately) that I know, would be upset by it.
ReplyDeleteKudos to you Karen for not posting it; although curiosity is killing the cat (no pun intended...sorry).
I think if you consider something is outside of your normal moral boundaries than don't publish it. You can just say last night's comments were too offensive to publish.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with both sides, but as STM frequently references oozy, pus-filled anal sores, I would think that fans of this page are not faint-hearted. Maybe you can put a link in for those that DO want to read it, so other, more sensitive types can make their own choice. Bravo for being sensitive in a world full of self-centeredness...
ReplyDeleteOne possible solution is code your text in HTML so it becomes white. Any STM gibberish that might be offensive will have to be actively highlighted by the reader to be read.
ReplyDelete<span style='background: white; color: white'>Your spoiler text here</span>
with < being < and > being > (sorry, blogspot tags are being a hassle)
Hah, silly me. Nevermind the last line. Carry on.
ReplyDeleteI like what belowme suggested, but I have to say, as long as you have a disclaimer, you should be ok. I see no reason to withhold any gems from STM! There has been some pretty violent stuff already what with killing vegetarians et al, so, although I think you should tread with caution, I think you should post, albeit with a warning.
ReplyDeleteAgreed with the "don't post it" contingent. Not because people will be offended (I know I wouldn't be) but because it's really a shitty thing to post a trigger for rape victims.
ReplyDeleteDitto Snugs72.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with the "Don't post it" crowd, because of the trigger risk.
ReplyDeletei think if it was posted with a spoiler or something that would avoid the trigger but you have a warning on your blog advising people that there is some out there stuff if people are triggered that easy (not having a go at them at all i know where they r coming from too) they should avoid blogs like this till they are stronger
ReplyDeleteim posting anonymous as i dont wanna feel too much backlash at my comments but my name is kirstie
Please i really mean no offence to anyone out there its just my 2 cents
I always wondered if all of the Late Night Shows' jokes/innuendos about Michael Jackson's alleged illegal under-aged relationships were appropriate -you have to think that there were a lot of people watching who experienced abuse and thought it was no laughing matter -but that is the nature of jokes: somebody and perhaps some entire demographic is thrown under the bus.
ReplyDeleteIf you go to a comedy club (or STM) there are bound to be some boundaries pushed: but there still are boundaries (Michael Richards ring a bell!).
The warning seems like a reasonable way to go to me.
Don't post it. I trust your instinct in the matter. You've been doing this long enough that if you feel it goes above and beyond the parameters to post it, you shouldn't. It's not about offending and more about how you want the STM blog site to be viewed. Your blog...your rules and standards. End of story.
ReplyDeleteI think I would be offended, especially since STM is talking in his sleep and it doesn't necessarily reflect your opinions on this, but generally I find it hard to laugh about rape, in any form.
ReplyDeleteThis might be because I know too many people who've been raped, and it really puts me off when the topic is made a joke. While I like to think that one should be able to joke about everything (satire is imo absolutely necessary to both a democracy and civilization) it appears my personal comfort zone is on this side of the line when it comes to rape. But even had you posted it, I probably would have thought something like "Oh, well. I don't like it, but it's not a big deal. I wouldn't want it on a shirt, though."
Oh no! I meant to say I WOULDN'T be offended, especially since STM is talking in his sleep.
ReplyDeleteSorry for that mishap. I'm not really awake yet it seems.
I'm with the do-not-post group. Not necessarily because people might be offended, it's just something that should probably not be taken as entertainment. Good instinct! :)
ReplyDeleteI agree with you for not posting. Even though it would not offend/upset me, I can understand how some people might have trigger points.
ReplyDeleteIf it doesnt feel right to you Karen, go with your feelings. We get enough enjoyment from what you do post, so the odd one that is left out wont affect anyone.
Thank you for your daily injection of humour into our lives :-)
If anyone was going to go off the deep end at the first mention of rape, they would've done so by now just by reading your explanatory note when you actually mentioned cat rape. If they are that fragile, that should've scared them off, never to come back to your blog again.
ReplyDeleteSo now that all the victims have been scared off and are not reading these comments, why don't you treat the rest of us to STM's pussy bum rape incident as a comment? Go on, you csn do it!!!! Please/thanks
Oh yeah, to STM . . . love ya work!!
I agree with ButMadNNW.
ReplyDeletei would stick it on, u clearly state at the top that it may be offensive and not too look if you a bit of a fanny.. worded differently of course! put it on!!!!! :)
ReplyDeletenufarulmeu.blogspot.com
ReplyDeleteI am from Romania, and we have applenty of rape (low, bad) jokes, and i do not know many ladies to take a stand against. Yet, i tend to agree with the rest of the no-s.
PS get 2 duvets guys! it is the best of solutions! one can get a warmer environment and the other can have all the ventilation he needs. (or warm buttocks)
I agree with Toby1964: your boat, your rules. It depends on how you want the website to be viewed and who you want to be able to enjoy it.
ReplyDeleteThe killing-of-vegetarians-joke is entirely different from rape jokes, in that it doesn't trigger PTSD. I was a vegetarian myself for many years and am not offended at all.
If you feel that someone might be seriously upset then don't post it; trust your instincts. I have never been offended by anything STM has said, so good job so far! I understand that you might feel uncomfortable with such content and that you want everyone to be able to enjoy the hilarious midnight ramblings of your alter-husband.
First time commmenter, love the blog though. I think it is okay to make light of rape, just as it is okay to make light of Hitler or WWII or the crusades. If you aren't able to make fun of something you just put it up on a pedestal, which in turn makes it impossible for people to cope with the subject in a healthy way.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, which is why I wish you hadn't included it. Which you did.
ReplyDeleteSorry Verena but I don't think it is OK to make light of rape at all. It's not about putting it on a pedestal either. Hitler and the crusades were both singular points in history. they are over, never to be repeated - one hopes. But rape still happens every day. Unless you have been raped (I have, repeatedly) You can't understand the damage it does. Not only physical but emotional too. The violation, loss of self esteem, guilt (even if you are completely innocent) loss of trust in others are hard to overcome. Many do overcome them but it is a long road and not one to be made a joke of in any circumstances. the phrase "walk a mile in my shoes" definitely applies here. This is not meant to be a Boo hoo, poor me post but just one to try to garner some understanding. Cat rape wouldn't bother me - I coped - but it might really bother others who have just as much right to enjoy STM without being labelled 'whingers' or the like.
ReplyDeleteAs a survivor, I appreciate your sensitive. I gasped when I read your comment about the quote. I'm a big girl and can choose what I read online, but rape (and specifically anal rape) should never be used for humor. I don't judge Adam for what he says while asleep, but thanks for the sensitivity! If you choose to post something like that, at least proceed it with a warning!
ReplyDeleteBTW, I love this blog and check it everyday!
http://musingsandmeanderings-mlp.blogspot.com
Good call.....always listen to your gut. It would have been wrong.
ReplyDeleteTriggers are serious and I appreciate that you held back. I suppose placing a warning and putting possible triggers in white text, as suggested above, would be a good compromise for those keen to hear *all* the stm goodness (or indeed badness!) ...but if in doubt, dont.
ReplyDeleteThe mistake was not in not posting it. Your mistake was in telling us about it! Now we all, including those that have said don't post it, want to know what it is.
ReplyDeleteYou've already posted the punch line and as has been stated already above, your explanation and the ensuing comments provide all the fodder necessary for a trigger.
Next time you you're in doubt, leave it out. AND don't tell us about it.
Interesting that my first comment seems to have disappeared.
Having been the victim of sexual assault (twice), I agree with your decision to not post it. I'm OK now, years later, but at the time and for some time afterwards I would get very upset about references made to rape, or assault, even those which were intended in jest - it was just hard not to get wound up by it, even when I knew it wasn't meant to upset me. As you say, it's not about people taking offence, but about people getting upset, and that kind of comment could potentially be very upsetting to people who have experienced rape or sexual assault.
ReplyDelete"Protecting" us is something our parents did. As adults, we can make informed decisions about what or what not to read. Post it with a warning label if you so choose, but post it nonetheless.
ReplyDeleteSure, some people will be offended, but they'll probably be offended by something eventually anyway. Might as well weed them out sooner than later.
I would have said that there is plenty here that could offend... and people know to take it with a grain of salt.
ReplyDeleteHowever, this isn't an issue of just being offensive, it's an issue of making light of something that someone would be seriously hurt by, to remind them of something as heinous a crime as there may be.
I think it is the act of a reasoned person who chooses to self-censor. In the light of the risk of PTSD, I think you made the worthy call.
So my vote is to keep it off.
Thanks.
As adults, we can make informed decisions about what or what not to read
ReplyDeleteFair point, however there is nothing to stop children from reading this blog, hence the warning at the top of the page - so perhaps caution is the better way to go when it comes to certain subjects?
Well, I think you should post it, perhaps behind a cut, but then again I'm on <a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/8/13/>Team Dickwolf</a>.
ReplyDeleteFAIL@LINK
ReplyDeleteI don't see how a warning would help. I have never been bothered, hurt or offended by anything STM has said, but yes, I would have found that disturbing.
ReplyDeleteIn looking at what would be lost when posting or not, I think it's a no-brainer. It's not worth hurting someone - and there is a very real possibility that someone would be hurt by reading about that - just over a silly, little blog.
Your blog is about entertaining people. At its heart, it does its little bit to make the world a better place. How freaking cool is that? Why mess with that?
wouldn't offend me.
ReplyDeleteThing is, the potentially offensive bit HAS been mentioned in your warning.
Just post it with a warning before hand- sort of like the ratings for movies and television broadcasts. 'This entry rated 'R' for sensitivity reasons'.
ReplyDeleteIf he is talking in his sleep, there is no filter on anything as the site's warning tries to cover. Shouldn't be off limits if you ask me. Sorry to anyone whose had a real dealing with something so serious. I think there should be a way for others to see it who are at less of a risk of being offended in the same way.
ReplyDeleterape is nothing to make lite of. but, knowing STM through this website, he doesn't trully wish it on anyone. He just wishes to have the idiots and morons leave him alone.... I understand that.
ReplyDeleteI say it's ok seeing that it is just used as a description of someone's singing. I feel that is more politically safe. but it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a disclaimer for the saying to protect you from anything, be it legal or personal.
Mike in TN
P.S. by the way I thought the same thing about the Duvet.... didn't know it was a comforter and not the actual cabinet. I had a picture of a cabinet of some kind running away from him.
I vote for not posting it despite the fact that so many of Adam's ramblings can be offensive, rape is a very different type of offensive. This has been a very interesting debate so early in the morning (here in the U.S.). My advice is this, if one of you feels very strongly about not posting something then that should be the deciding factor, your loyal fan base need not weigh in.
ReplyDeleteNo one in their right mind would be disturbed, as no one is in control of what they say while they are asleep. My girlfriend called me a racial slur in her sleep a few weeks ago, but other than some merciless taunting about her being a subconscious racist I haven't said anything.
ReplyDeleteI say post it. STM is hilarious and you aren't condoning or making light of rape by reporting to us what he says. You can always put a disclaimer in the title of the post.
Karen, your sensitivity is also your intuition.
ReplyDelete...... keep on keepin on! you know whats best and what we don't know or what we do know is the cats out of the bag and in the end, first instincts rule in sensitivity, and you're on the mark for the sake of the blog, its totally solid...for the sake of triggers vs. entertainment, it seems clear that not everthing is necessary in the end, and plenty of STM to go around.
I can only sense not from experience but lookin' in from lookin' out at the array of posters, instincts always rule and the entry couldn't have gone any better than being honestly real about it all...that was done.
Kudos for blogging it abouts and of course, the cremedelecreme...STM at it's best, no hashing necessary, as the two of you have given more than we ever expected, daily even!
---instinctively said to be read, with care
I think its probably better that you left that one out. Even if it is senseless rambling, you've got to draw the line somewhere.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand. You didn't make the post, but then you wrote what he said anyway, asking whether you should have posted it?
ReplyDeleteIn my (very humble, I appreciate) opinion, it would have been better to just leave it, any any mention of it out, since you were unsure. Posting a warning probably wouldn't have worked. What could you write? "Warning - STM mentions rape" - well, if you were trying not to upset people by making them think of rape you've ruined it. And if you make it non specific you risk people listening to it/reading it anyway, thinking it might just be NSFW.
At the end of the day, its your blog and you can write whatever you like - but it seems a bit odd to me to be questioning whether or not to post something that you have basically already posted!
As someone who has been raped, thank you for being cautious.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, it's your blog and you can post what you want. In the future, if he says something about rape and you think it's funny, post it. Just...please put a disclaimer?
For being some one who was raped, just reading your comments on whether or not to post has made me upset. It is a very sensitive subject and you really need to be careful about who you say stuff around. Good choice on holding back
ReplyDeleteI'm sure there was much more detail to the post Anonymous 15:17, as the subject hint was there in topic to get to the point, but the full stream of words and inflections were not, that was the difference.
ReplyDeleteKaren -- you do what you think is right. I agree with you, not for upsetting people (poor vegetarians) but because if it makes you feel uncomfortable, don't do it.
ReplyDeleteI think that it could be upsetting for some but as you've already described the content it's sort of already out there...
ReplyDeleteThere are certain subjects that require discretion: cancer, rape, the Holocaust. That's what I can think of right now. Rape standing out as one of the most immoral acts an individual can commit.
ReplyDeleteBut making it a taboo is probably worse than speaking light of it. Besides, 'raping' a piece of music or someone's legacy, or even a person in a financial way, is a pretty much accepted idiom.
Everyone has certain trigger words that make them feel uncomfortable. As an autist, I would prefer for instance that people wouldn't drop the Retard bomb as often as they do. But that doesn't mean I can't stand a joke. Someone who has barely survived a traffic accident wouldn't watch Top Gear or nascar like most people do. But it's a part of everyday life that shouldn't be taboo as a subject of conversation if we want to isolate and tackle the problem.
I say post it, the site already comes with a disclaimer.
I think you've already provided a warning on the website to the content. If anyone proceeds and is still offended, it's their fault. Free speech! Plus, I think I would've found the quote hilarious.
ReplyDeletePS on a more personal note: I'm all the more curious now! You've built it up Karen, follow through.
ReplyDeleteThe question isn't about the audience. It should be: Does Adam want to be known for saying something about anally raping a cat in his sleep?
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing probably not. And that's okay.
I think that people should know to take this all in good fun, its not like STM is ACTUALLY doing the raping, hes just using it to describe something. I think you should post a link to the actual recordings so those who choose to can hear it.
ReplyDeleteYou mentioning what Adam said actually makes your question a moot point as we now know, it's just not in quote or soundbite form. If you decide something's too much, that's your prerogative, you're under no obligation to post everything Adam says.
ReplyDeleteSo I'd say if Adam and you are comfortable with it being out there, go ahead and post it.
post it, whats the worst that can happen?
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking that with the "Is all of this real, or are you making it up?" contingent out there, you were right in wanting to be honest about the situation. And now that you have, and judging from the responses, feel free to omit anything that your conscience tells you you should, as well as any reference to the fact that we are missing out on something. There are so many fantastic things Adam does say, we'll be just fine, and omitting one here or there is totally your prerogative. :)
ReplyDeletei think all this talk is totally unecessay. karen, your house, your rules. end of story.
ReplyDeleteRape is not a joke. I support your decision not to post anything you think may be offensive. And like the previous post says, your house, your rules. Or as Adam as previously said "My boat, My rules!"
ReplyDeleterape is a fun thing to make light of because then when it happens to you you will think your self a dick head :D
ReplyDeleteI think you're right to be sensitive about that. The people it could offend have already been horribly hurt. Some things just aren't laughable! Good thinking!
ReplyDeleteI've been reading all of the comments thus far and even as someone who has been the victim of a sexual assault in my far younger years, an animal rights activist, AND a vegetarian...I do believe the quote should have been made. But with audio left out and disclaimer put it.
ReplyDeleteMy reasoning for this is that while I fail to find humor in anything involving animals being hurt or in being constantly berated for my lifestyle or in people making light of something tragic like rape...It was not a consciously-made comment. Had it been, I would have vehemently protested it or others like it poking at others, being posted.
Besides, one thing to note is that STM has made comments [as per your disclaimers] that seem to indicate towards someone he knows rather well. Yet they remain up and they are speaking almost right at someone.
So why should the comment he made last night be so different? So while it is your website and your choice, I do believe it was a thoughtful but unnecessary one to do without at least some sort of very clear warning about what was being said.
I would have been bothered by a comment about a cat being anally raped. I understand that STM and Adam are different, but consciously putting it up as a joke... well i wouldnt be happy.
ReplyDeleteThe stuff STM says is put up here to share and be funny. That wouldnt be funny at all.
I cannot believe some of these comments. Rape is never a subject you should make light of, even if it's "just" cat rape. The fact that it doesn't offend the lot of you or that it's "just the Internet" does NOT MATTER. It could have been severely triggering for someone else, and the fact that everyone is disregarding that is appalling.
ReplyDeleteI agree that you should not post it. It is the right thing to do, and no one is being sensitive or "PC" for not wanting to have to hear rape jokes.
But in the end, if you feel compelled to post such content I hope you at least give people a warning. Hopefully before the quote, not after.
Since you asked, at first I was thinking that it shouldn't be such a big deal posting something up about rape (which is, of course, no laughing matter at all), but only appropriate when you think about it coming from someone's sleeping subconscious. But then I was reading some other comments above about people who have been unfortunate to have been put in that situation, and can still be emotionally unstable from it (not that I have, or know anyone who has). And then I have to agree--if it is something that can really set people off and could be considered "not funny anymore," then you did the right thing by keeping it to yourself.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I LOVE all the stuff you and Adam DO put up, and it always makes my day first thing in the morning! ^_^
...overly sensitive. I personally, as a pirate, could have been offended plenty of times, and my vegetarian crew as well, (I won't even get into the fact that we don't use elephant trunks for elephant things), but since you're asking, then just add a spoiler for the really raunchy or offensive stuff... unless it's about pirates. We love that sorta thing.
ReplyDeleteI think you did the right thing, Karen
ReplyDeletethere still is freedom of speech over there, right? your website, your choice.
ReplyDeletethat being said, i think the post should be sufficient. don't know if i need the audio for that foul language. don't want anyone to miscontrue STM's musings for real world Adam.
Looks like a debate has been sparked and a lot of sparks are flying! I admire your sensitivity Karen but I think that since STM is unaware of his comments whilst saying them he can't really be held accountable.
ReplyDeleteWhatever he did say was not making light of rape. It was just the way that STM decided to express the sound of something horrid. He could have said somehing like "She's got a voice like a cat with its throat cut" but that doesn't mean that he would be condoning animal cruelty.
It was maybe a bit too close to the knuckle, but as I say, it was not intended to offend!
You already have a disclaimer at the top of your site which shows that you are aware that not everyone will accept the views/opinions expressed by STM. In waking life, I'm sure Adam shares your concerns, therefore, censorship is not warranted.
By expressing your concern, you maybe have opened up a pandora's box but if you'd posted it without saying anything (or not posted it at all), no one would have battered an eyelid.
Nevertheless, I still love your site and in conclusion you've got to understand is that: you can't please all of the people all of the time - that's just the way it is. x
You essentially posted it anyway by describing it and asking if it should be posted!
ReplyDeleteIf there's a next time, perhaps you could post a big, clickable, 'warning, offensive content' label. That way people could choose to click it and be sent to a separate page containing the quote you're leery of, or skip it if they're squeamish.
Anonymous at 17:55 Yes there still is freedom of speech but with that freedom comes responsibility. Responsibility to self-censor up to a point, to not purposly say thing that we KNOW will have a detrimental effect on another individual. "Freedom of speech" is often banded about as an excuse by people who intentionally want to hurt or offend others with their words. It is undermined by these declarations. Rape is horrific, which you would know if you had ever been subjected to it. People who have been raped, especially recently, are trying to get their lives back to some semblance of normality. In a world where we live as a society, we ALL have a responsibility to facilitate that. Not posting something that may cause another to suffer a set-back is showing compassion for others. Something that is often so sadly lacking in this day and age.
ReplyDeleteIf you thought it was so terrible you shouldn't have mentioned it at all. Personally, I think you should've posted it, you're being far too sensitive. It's a blog on the internet.
ReplyDeleteMaybe previous silly gibberish posts would have hurt people who knew someone who was murderered? Why is it ok to post about killing but not about rape?
I would vote that you post it with some kind of tag, or, as has been suggested, in white text. That's better than mentioning it in a description, where it's very obvious and fleshed out, even if it's not the actual mumblings.
ReplyDeleteIf something like this comes up again, either hide it with disclaimers/offensive content tags, or don't post it and don't mention it.
Might I suggest a look at Amanda Palmer's lovely blog post on the subjects of rape and humor? Just as a related note.
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/75463717/on-abortion-rape-art-and-humor
maybe put up a poll to make the decision since it seems pretty even on both sides. And if posting it wins then do it with a warning for those against it going up
ReplyDeleteDon't post. We know it would take an unusually harsh comment for you to not post. Thank you for your sensitivity.
ReplyDeletego with your gut.
ReplyDeleteI think the only reason not to post one of Adam's sleep talkings would be legal: i.e. if he (allegedly!) slandered some real person (which I don't think he's ever done yet!) I think you have said that you want to record everything he says, whether it's amusing or not, and I agree with the comments above saying just add a disclaimer note to the posting.
ReplyDeleteWell considering how sensitive the topic of rape is, you made the right choice. Unlike murder, which rape is just as bad as at least, there are survivors of this type of horrible crime out there, and they might get upset at any mention or reminder of it, weather it is used sensitively and portrayed realistically or not. Using it for comedy would just make it worse for them.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your sensitivity towards others, not many people on the internet have it these days.
I'm of the "don't post it" contingency, less for offense (although rape is never funny, and the fact that people do find it so in jokes, ets., is a symptom of the culture we live), and more for triggering. I mean, if something is potentially triggering, it needs a trigger warning-- which suggests to me that it's maybe getting beyond what the site is about...
ReplyDeletei agree that the only worry might be that it would be triggering to a fan of stm who has experienced rape or sexual violence. the idea of hiding it behind a colour tag is brilliant.
ReplyDeletei think it's wonderful of you to have this kind of worry. thank you for the concern and kindness.
I think you did the right thing. I don't see how a warning label would help, as you would have to tell basically what the content is anyway. People who are otherwise ok with harsh subjects might see a general label and think "I can handle it" then click and have it be too much. As it is your blog, the final decision is yours. You should go by what feels right to you. If you feel it might be a problem, don't post it.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, as a rape victim myself, it would not bother me in the least. The way I deal with things is with humor. By taking the piss out of it, the subject becomes less scary. I realize that on the internet everything isn't always going to be warm and fuzzy. I take full responsibility for what I view and how I react to it. If I had a PTSD moment over someone mentioning anal cat rape I would rush back into my therapists office, because it means I haven't dealt with the issues as well as I thought I had.
Just my 2 pence. Love the site, BTW!
Let me preface this with the fact that I've never been raped or personally know anyone who has, so I can't imagine where the line would lie for anyone who could have a PTSD trigger about it.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I can't think of anything STM could have said that would be so horrible it couldn't have been linked to with fair warning about the content.
But it is your blog and I agree with the earlier comments that in the last analysis, you make the decision about the content therein. If you feel that the offensiveness/possible harm outweighs the entertainment, then good on you for censoring.
As has been said many times above I agree that it should've been left out. Rape (even in jest involving sheep and the welsh) for many people, including people who are not victims of this terrible crime, is considered uncomfortable at best and just a part of life at worst. Personally I find this very sad. Many commenter's say
ReplyDelete"it's OK it was just STM's nocturnal ramblings put a warning on it and all will be OK. If they are offended they shouldn't of read or listened to it".
But people despite the warning's WILL listen and read it even if it does cause a terrible psychological reaction, and will then complain by a comment or do something drastic that you won't hear about.
That's my tuppence worth.
And as for the duvet, Adam sounded quite David Attenborough.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this page (http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/75463717/on-abortion-rape-art-and-humor) as referenced above, I have to say, I know some people can be sensitive, but someone somewhere is always going to react badly to things that other people don't see a problem with. So if you censor one thing, it might lead to others...and where do you draw the line about who might not like the content? I think we need humour to make terrible things more bearable. But... as many have said before "your boat, your rules" so as long as there's a post every morning I think you'll keep everyone happy!
ReplyDeleteps. do I get to be commenter 100?! Woo! Have you ever had 100 comments before??
I WANT TO HEAR THE REAL RAPE LINE! no gross or worse then licking ur grandma gential sores. mayeb u could email it to those who do want to read it????
ReplyDeleteYeah that has made me really curious as to what the comment actually is. It seriously can't be worse than licking his grandma's genital sores.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, iv always described bad singing as a cat being raped. Think i agree with Adam on this.
ReplyDeleteI say go with your gut, Karen - there have been some truly disgusting comments posted (yeah, licking granny's genital sores comes to mind!) and you haven't felt this kind of hesitation before. Intuition is something to listen to and trust. The discussion is quite interesting and to me just shows that you can't please everyone all the time, and shouldn't worry about it.
ReplyDeleteKudos for not posting it. As someone who has been the victim of sexual assault, I appreciate you refusing to encourage others to joke about rape.
ReplyDeleteBottom Line: *YOUR* blog, your call. The most important issue at hand here is that you were up front and told the readers about it. Regardless of the outcome of your decision, I personally respect your honesty and forthrightness above all.
ReplyDeleteThere's about 106 comments posted so far which has acheived nothing. Seeing you've already been blatantly obvious about the content which I agree isn't any worse than granny's genital sores, I still reckon you could type what STM said, hidden waaaaay down here as Comment No. 107. Please/thanks.
ReplyDeleteI think you did the right thing. I've been raped, and while I'm not easily triggered, it's impossible to know WHAT is triggering until it happens. As this sounds like a comment that truly gave YOU pause, regardless of the prurient curiosity of readers, you made a sensible decision in not posting it. People also slow down to gawk at car wrecks, but satisfying that sort of curiosity helps no one.
ReplyDeleteMUST POST!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI "selectively" read many of these comments (there's only so much opinion we are meant to absorb), but as was mentioned this is your site and it's your choice. A classy choice if you were to ask me (I know, you aren't).
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for sharing your unique nocturnal entertainment. And thanks to Adam for being himself. I look forward to more smile fuel.
Thanks so much for not posting. My rapes are decades in the past, and yet it is true that a crime like this becomes a part of you are. It isn't offensive at all to me to read what you say the quote was about, and I am glad actually, that there are so many people who don't understand what the difference is between what you said and what the actual quote was. It means there are people untouched by rape in the world and of that I am glad. Yes, I would have gotten over reading it I'm sure, but it too would have become part of me and it is SO much nicer to have the knowledge that people like you who understand and self-edit yourselves are out there! You've given me a boost today! Sure, that boost will wear off just like the quote would have eventually, but the boost is so much nicer. Thank you Karen, and Adam too!
ReplyDeleteI think you knew yourself whether or not you should post it, as you didn't. I think that was the right decision. The STM blog was brought on to share his ridiculous, baffling and utterly brilliant ravings while away in the good land of Nod and anything on here that would deeply upset someone would, I think, be against the nature of the blog. That's the main reason I don't think it should have gone on.
ReplyDeleteI don't think (as some of the other comments seem to suggest) that sparking the debate about it has caused what you wished to avoid by not posting the comment in question. It's given a sensible debate about the subject and allowed you to guage what your audience would think to the comment, had you posted it.
I read this blog every working day as the first thing I do when I get into work (I get a nice little bundle of blogs updates on a Monday morning when they are needed most!!!!). It is absolutely brilliant and I hope STM keeps coming up with the gems that he does!!!
Easy solution: say it is a male cat. People who think rape of a woman is not a subject for humor will often laugh at male rape humor. In particular prison or jail rape is often made light of - by both sexes.
ReplyDeleteAs to it being a subject that some people might get past memories triggered, it isn't the only one. Killing is. For those of us who have been in combat and have killed other humans the humor in jokes or talk of killing vegetarians may well be gone. Further the actual risk of people getting physically harmed or killed from a vet going into a flashback is magnitudes greater than a rape joke.
The fact of the matter is that rape jokes are quite common and don't trigger flashbacks. For those that would it is the thinking of it via mentioning it. As such anybody who would have had it triggered would have done so by your inference to it. People at that level of difficulty are not the people reading or listening to unfiltered communication as they are considered a risk to themselves.
A concern is a notable quality in our species, so I commend that in you. However this is a case where it is unwarranted given the circumstances above. If you are concerned about it still, and do accept the reality of such conditions you are frankly better off leaving any reference to it out at all. This would include prison jokes and buggery jokes. A man in that condition is no different than a woman.
If it is your personal sensibilities, just go with that.
Your own judgement is emough - if you think "no", it's a "no".
ReplyDeleteAnything that might spark off someone's PTSD, is not worth the risk.
And there's enough on-the-edge humour posted here, for those who like that to have a laugh...
I think people who can't stand a cat rape joke really need to stick with their personal counselling and therapy if they are to be able to read the news, watch TV and go on the street.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI trust your judgement as the blog owner. You needn't justify your decision not to post anything.
ReplyDeleteI fear that the subject of rape is becoming a taboo; something dark and unmentionable and above all shameful. So I'm against censoring the word. It's a problem. Bring it into the light.
ReplyDeleteThat said, is it really worth the angry emails, the lost readers, the muck-raking, the emotional blackmail? You don't have to fight this fight. You don't need the ulcers.
Your boat, your rules.
I'm sorry but F all the oversensitive people who might be offended or have some repressed memory relapse or any other nonsense. If it offends you, DON'T READ IT. That's the joy of having the free will to choose whats best for yourself.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate you bringing your concern to your readers. I usually don't read all the comments but I have been very impressed by this debate. It reinforces my thought that your blog speaks to a highly intelligent crowd. Quite a few of the comments are carefully considered, well supported points of view. I support you being open about the topic and your concern for potential harm. By simply expressing your concern and opening the debate for your readers, you have taken the sting out what was actually said. It appears from the comments, you have your reader's support for 'your blog, your rules'. And a huge thank you from rape victims (like myself) for your consideration. The highest law in almost every belief is "Do No Harm". Self-censorship is not diametrically opposed to free speech. Compassion is not excluded from the right to free speech.
ReplyDelete'My right to swing my arm stops at your nose.'
Proud of you, Karen. Thank you so much for not posting it.
ReplyDeleteI thought this was sleep talking mans blog. Adam wanted to post it. HE is sleep talking man, the one who will be associated with the saying he should have been the one to choose. And as a american i am surprised u didnt defended his right to free speech more. i know he is british, but same thing.
ReplyDeleteI think you did the right thing holding it back. I have both male and female friends who have been the victims of sexual assualt. Rape jokes make me uncomfortable as I've seen the effects it can have, and you can't know the reaction of everyone who would read it, even with a warning.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with the 'your blog, your rules' sentiment. I think you have good judgement and although I'm aware some other stuff STM's come out with is potentially offensive, I don't think it would do the blog any harm to keep some of the things he says quiet if you deem them too inappropriate.
Late to the discussion, but wished to chime in here. I agree with Faerie Mama (and MadNNW up at the very beginning.) Free speech means we can say whatever we wish, within limits. (You're not allowed to yell Fire in a movie theater, FreeSpeech, nor to make certain jokes in an airport.) I agree with your choice.
ReplyDeleteKaren - I read your (and Adam's/STM's) blog nearly every day and look forward to my daily giggle. I just wanted to post and thank you so much for your decision not to post this particular comment, and for the opportunity for discussion regarding this very sensitive issue. This decision (not to post) makes me like and respect you even more. I have personally been a victim of rape, and it has changed my life forever. I would say that I'm pretty easy going and don't get bent out of shape about things too easily, but I cannot stand it when I hear people joking or making light of any type of rape, sexual assault, etc. I think it's just simply in poor taste. I really respect you for your decision and again thank you for thinking of those of us that have been affected by this type of trauma personally or with someone close to us. Please, always trust your instincts. They seem to be quite on target.
ReplyDeleteLast year in school, a couple of friends and I were practicing for choir in another class. The teacher wasn't there and the rest of the class either didn't mind or was actively enjoying it. When the teacher came in, she said, "Do I hear ill cats singing? Or is that my students?"
ReplyDeleteNow, I know my friends and I are all good singers, and I have come to realize that the teacher was already having a bad day, but then she went further and made a rude comment about my personal life (insinuating that there was abuse in my home) because I was upset. I treasure my singing voice, and I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve, so it was a normal reaction for me.
Needless to say, I'm rather glad you didn't post it.
I am glad you didn't post it.
ReplyDeleteComments slamming vegans and vegetarians are one thing, that is a life style choice.
Using rape is more on the order of joking about child abuse.
The humour is not worth the potential pain for some readers, IMO.
Well, I'm late to this party but I am disappointed you chose to censor it. There are times when Adam (albeit in his sleep) dreams about death and destruction, and even worse, he dreams about the death or eradication of a specific group of people or animals.
ReplyDeleteGranted, rape is a terrible thing, but we KNOW he does not mean to make light of it any more than he intends to makes light of the destruction of a certain subset of people.
Besides, from what I can gather, he wasn't actually making light of rape as much as he making light of someone's singing and sort of making light of animal abuse.
Well, instead of bitching about it, may I make a suggestion? Could we have a second blog, one which contains Adam's more... adult musings?
YEs I would totally join the adult adam blog. I hate having my STM cencored. Down with cencorship! screw all u people ruining what i read, when it wasnt even about rape but about singing. oh and one more thing- ANAL CAT RAPING!!!! that cat is tore the f*** up. I totally boned that cat.--------Anyone one faint??? no? we're all still alive then?
ReplyDeleteI think you should post it, but put it as a link you have to click, and also state what the subject matter is, and that it may be very offensive to some people. I see it as a lot of the other posts you put up. He is asleep and doesn't realize or even mean what he says. That's what makes all of this so funny. I think as long as you put that disclaimer up, people don't have to read or hear what was said. This by the way is coming from a victim of rape.
ReplyDeleteI'm late to the debate, but I don't see the problem in posting it. Rape is nothing to joke about, but STM wasn't talking about the rape of a person. Totally different ballpark.
ReplyDeleteIf the mere use of the word rape in an out-of-context joke would send someone into a psychological breakdown, then they would have to avoid all tv, radio, & internet just to make it through the day.
The blog is light-hearted entertainment. If you start censoring now, where will you stop? People can be offended by anything. You can't please them all. I say add a separate link for posts that could be offensive.
Thank you for not posting it.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy your blog a lot, and I know it's not for the easily offended, but most of what STM says is so far from reality it's ridiculous to find it offensive, because there's nothing like that happening in reality. For example, the killing of vegetarians and vegans could be called offensive, but it's not a problem in the real world, so it's not insensitive. If he was talking about concentration camps and Jews it'd be a different situation, because that's too close to what's actually happened in the world.
A lot of people who feel like rape jokes aren't that big of a deal don't realize how incredibly common rape is. I get what the person above me is saying, that because it's a cat it's different, but I think it's kind of you to just not chance it.
I think you got it right when you said that its not about offending people but about people feeling hurt or being reminded of hurt.
ReplyDeleteBut beyond that... everything we say and do has the potential to cause others pain. Something in you made you finch momentarily and not post it and then question it. All this is great.
You live with someone who says perplexing, challenging, hysterical, wonderful and wonderfully rude and crude things. He also appears to advocate for violence to be used against Vegetarians on a regular basis and lives in a night time world populated with lots of crazy animals.
Coming here is kinda like getting to the top of the Faraway Tree and popping your head out to see what world is there.
For some reason for me (someone who has been raped) a post containing a reference to a cat (or anything/anyone) being raped would kinda feel like popping my head up and getting smacked in the head with a saucepan.
Good call. I am a foster parent, and another subject I wouldn't touch as being "funny" is incest. I've seen the aftermath, and there are just some subjects best left alone and not joked about, or posted about even if the person is sleep talking! If in doubt, don't!
ReplyDeleteThis is idiotic. Why is it that we cannot hear something of the sort? Put warnings about it. It is not like this is the craziest thing he has ever said. He has said many things equally offensive if not more.
ReplyDeleteI suppose it is entirely resonable to not put it up because it could be disturbing, but a warning giving the nature of the content might have given people a warning if it was on another page... I agree to keep it off the site though...
ReplyDeleteBTW, I understand Adam's difficulty with the duvet. Mine tends to run from me during the night as well, and I sleep alone. The duvets are out for us...
I think the people who come here on a regular basis, know that STM uses some pretty graphic and rough language, so they're the ones who can deal with it. And for newbies, you have the disclaimer. But if you think something STM says is really painful (and not just offensive for some), then it's fine if you don't post it, because it's for a good reason, since rape is really nothing to joke about.
ReplyDeleteSome people might be offended by some quotes (like "killing vegetarians"), but these days for many people 'being offended' seems to mean 'being hatefully attacked'. But afterall STM's quotes are subcontious and not Adam's or your true opinion and one has always the possibility not to give a shit about something another person said/wrote/did, even if it offends you.
We all get offended by something or other and no matter if it's really, truly wrong and hurtful or if we are just oversensible, we might be the minority. We don't have the right to force our (over)sensibility on others and try to make what offended us unavailable for others, but we still have the right to protest it.
I entirely agree with the 'not posting' side. Unfortunately, when it comes to matters of rape and sexual abuse, my usually expansive vocubulary turns escapes me.
ReplyDeleteAs a victim of rape and sexual abuse as both a child and an adult, i am deeply concerned with the number of people in society who enjoy making light of something that is such a terrible black mark on our society.
Offensive quotes and ramblings are one thing, making light of a very serious problem in our society, one that is NOT taken seriously enough as it is, is another ball park.
BTW. I love the quote 'my right to swing my arm stops at your nose.'
Thankyou for a generally hilarious blog and a great sense of the 'blurred lines' in todays society. Your common sense and instinct is something that is admirable =)
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